tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24622549.post8368421323804983736..comments2023-10-19T06:59:20.135-07:00Comments on Kishkushim خربطات קישקושים: Tom Segev on the Jewish Lobby, Jimmy Carter, and BerkeleyAmoshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03465114506715277544noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24622549.post-75579469263126219802007-05-15T14:07:00.000-07:002007-05-15T14:07:00.000-07:00HazbniAs for Amos E. I understand, hopefully I am ...Hazbni<BR/>As for Amos E. I understand, hopefully I am not mistaken, that he left Israel with some ideological declaration about failed causes and that he now lives in Italy, more as a gentry, I hope for him, and less as the Jewish natives of Rome.<BR/>Sholem was a scholar no merchant ideologist as the Schocken people. So he must be treated differntly. Also like Buber and unlike the Schokens he felt a strong "spiritual" bond with the east-Jews. <BR/>It was always my wish to see an "if" "distopia" book about a Nazi Germany who treats the Jews Like the USA does, they are writing books about the opposit, a USA who treat its Jew like Naz. Germ. I Wonder what a role would the Schocken family have taken in such a purely imaginational composition. I also think that Hanna A. would have, in such fictional case, continued her philosophycal relations with Hideger and would have found the proper explantion for that. I think this is what Sholem thought about her but I may be wrong.<BR/>As for "Jew". Many people on the left, Chomski is an architype, are bolstering their "Ani" position by stating or slyly hinting that they are Jews. but ! they do not observ; they do not speak any Jewish languge(The Bund spoke Yidish; so it was in Byrobidjan); also they do not belong to any formal orgenized Jewish community. So their Jewishness is genetic =racial, or normal national. Which is OK by me, but generally not by them. Many of these left Jew or Jews on the left vehemently object to the idea that Jews are a nation like the Roma, Kurds, Sammi(=Lapps), Aborigins of Australia or Albanians of Kosovo (there were no Albanians there when the Portugese settled in Angola, or in Brasil for example). So go figure.<BR/>As for Hanna A., I think that by bringing Sholem up you got my point.<BR/>I am sorry to say that as far as I know, and with me it is a sad case of accumulating inexperience, J. is some what off the track. The present problems in Jerusalem have something to do with the evolution Abrahimic religions ( Evolution + Religion, that will make some people in the US of A realy sick)but the situation in Jeru. has more with more general traits of the human conditions, check: greed; cruelty; bigotry; stupidity; avarice and the effect of political power on the hormones, brain and muscles.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24622549.post-16013774940153729012007-05-15T09:19:00.000-07:002007-05-15T09:19:00.000-07:00Hazbani is very well informed. :)Amos Elon is inde...Hazbani is very well informed. :)<BR/><BR/>Amos Elon is indeed living in Tuscany these days, in a lovely, old renovated farmhouse, together with his American-born wife, Beth. His daughter Danae recently made a fascinating and intensely moving documentary about her family, called <A HREF="http://www.anotherroadhomethemovie.com/home.htm" REL="nofollow"> Another Road Home</A>. It's a rather astonishing story - check out the synopsis to see what I mean.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24622549.post-85786483695323676782007-05-15T02:31:00.000-07:002007-05-15T02:31:00.000-07:00This is an excellent post, and a real eye-opener.C...This is an excellent post, and a real eye-opener.<BR/><BR/>Coincidentally, I read this post just after I finished reading "The End of Faith", which has an interesting view of things. "Problems" such as Jerusalem need not be problems in a solidly secular view of the world.<BR/><BR/>However, I think the problems today are not quite the same as they were 3,000 years ago. It has much to do with a simple question; will Abrahimic religions evolve and focus on less "worldly concerns"? Islam may be more focused on the temporal than Judaism and Christianity, but the latter also have this unfortunate "feature".<BR/><BR/>As long as they remain focused on achieving aims in "this world", "issues" like Jerusalem will remain intractable.Jehahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08714767132428450071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24622549.post-70049492872985195862007-05-14T23:10:00.000-07:002007-05-14T23:10:00.000-07:00Hazbani,Very interesting insights. I actually have...Hazbani,<BR/>Very interesting insights. I actually have some fondness for the Schocken family, but you do have a point. I also don't know exactly what their take was on Arendt's <I>Eichmann in Jerusalem</I>, which I suspect is what you were referring to. I happen to think that Gershom Scholem might have been justified in his criticism of her, at least partially. BTW, do you think of him also as a Schocken Zionist?<BR/>I'm not sure about your question regarding how "these [are] Jews." <BR/>As for your last point - I agree. I just don't see it as such a problem. The loyalty of many citizens is bought, in part, by economic benefits that the state bestows on them. <BR/>What do you mean by Amos Elon playing at being "Toscana gentry"? That's funny. What exactly is he doing now? I have no idea what he's up to these days; I didn't think his recent book on German-Jewish history was so great personally, although I understand that it was written for a popular audience. <BR/>Curious to hear more from you.Amoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03465114506715277544noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24622549.post-59301767491687324882007-05-12T04:42:00.000-07:002007-05-12T04:42:00.000-07:00HazbaniTS represents what may be called Schocken Z...Hazbani<BR/>TS represents what may be called Schocken Zionism. He can be compared to others of this kind which the Schoken family grew and supported, one example, probably a role model for TS, is Amos Eilon, once Schocken protegee, an Israeli reporter - historian who is now playing at being a Toscana gentry. Schocken Zionism positions are neither left nor right, you can not call a strict dogmatic unti-unionist or a avid supperter of Milton Friedman "left". So the term "Israel Left" does not say a thing about a given person in the labor-capital issue. The writer has rightly relized that one of the best marks of Schocken Zionizm is a disengagement from any kind of even "normal" univesially acceptable, far from jingoism, national feelings such as mild signs of Jewish Solidarity. See for example the reactions of the Schoken establishment to H Arnedt and other "famous", i.e. Nobel prize winners, so called Jews, in what way are these Jews? hair color? nose length? dress ? food? keeping religious commands? only by self acclaimed Jewish national-psudo genetic feeling, but then they themselves say (if not scream) that there is no such thing, go figure. It is interesting that the non Jewish left often mildly or more nationalistic, was always very aware of this extreme anti-nationalism position of some Jews on the left. Hence Stalin invented the crime of being a cosmopolitican for which Jews of the left were shot. As for the villages exchange, I am against it, in the same way as I was against Bshara becomming another Pal. refugee. But this subject brings out the problematic fact that the Is. Arab loyalty to Israel is bought by economical benefits which realy also set the monetary price and the value of their pure, evelasting, till death loyalty to the Pal. national interests and causes. When the economy will be the same in Pal. and Is. the border will be switched like nothing as the border in the Shaba farms and south of Aqaba. The world is full of absurdes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com